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Court frustration over missing interpreters
District Judge Ken Sheraton. Photo: Rowland Hobson/Peterborough ET
A CITY judge has spoken of his “frustration” after he was forced to adjourn two cases because no interpreters were available.
District Judge Ken Sheraton said he was unable to go ahead with two cases yesterday after interpreters failed to turn up despite requests from Peterborough Magistrates’ Court to book them for the hearings.
Their absence is being attributed to cuts to their pay, which were introduced on February 1 and were agreed in a deal between Applied Language Solutions and the Ministry of Justice.
Before the deal, an interpreter was guaranteed at least three hours’ pay at £80 if they attended court and then £30 per hour thereafter. They were paid £15 per hour for time spent travelling.
Since February 1 interpreters are not paid for the first hour they travel and are paid £20 per hour at court.
The new arrangements are being blamed for interpreters not turning up and between February 3 and 10, Peterborough Magistrates’ Court had to adjourn 12 cases for that reason.
Yesterday, one case, involving a Polish lorry driver, had to be adjourned because no Polish interpreter was available.
Another case involving four Lithuanian defendants was adjourned by Judge Sheraton who said he could not even hear a bail application on behalf of the four, because he could not be sure the defendants would be able to understand their bail conditions if it were granted.
Speaking in court, Judge Sheraton said the situation was “frustrating”.
He said: “This is an issue of frustration. It is regrettable that again the organisation has not been able to supply interpreters.
“It makes it very difficult to proceed at a time when senior judiciary are asking that we work as swiftly as possible.
“This is far from being the only case affected by this and I understand it is happening across the country.
“If bail is appropriate with conditions I have to make sure defendants understand them, which is difficult without interpreters.
“I am adjourning this case until Wednesday, when I hope an interpreter will be available, but I give no guarantees.”
Richard Boucher, from Hunt and Coombs Solicitors, said the problems were affecting everyone using the courts across the country.
He said: “This problem is affecting everyone – defendants, defence solicitors, police, prosecutors, victims and the court system.
“We are here to do a job and justice cannot be done if interpreters are not available.
“There are lots of cases where people who would normally get bail are being held in custody because they cannot give solicitors instructions about their personal circumstances.
“A lot of these people do not understand the British court system and it is unfair for cases to go ahead in those circumstances. It is vital defendants understand what is going on.
“This has been going on for a number of weeks and it is not a happy situation.
“I am not sure what the cost of the adjournments will be but I am sure the taxpayer will not be happy.”
No-one from Applied Language Solutions was available to commentthe time of going to press.
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Comments
There are 44 comments to this article
Page 1 of 3
Zezen
Monday, March 12, 2012 at 11:56 PMLet me thank a number of posters for the enlightening contributions, especially the "Intepreter", quote: 'I am a Lithuanian interpreter who refuses...' I used to work as an intepreter myself. I gave up some 10 years ago, partly because of similar commercial practices. (Before anybody asks - yes, I was qualified: 2 years of post-grad studies in interpreting, professional exams and memberships, etc.) Indeed, it is a race to the bottom, and the individual specialists, the victims and the judicial system itself are being fleeced by such monopolistic arrangements. Greetings from Poland an ex-interpreter working in IT nowadays
themis
Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 03:54 PMEU Directive on the rights to interpretation and translation in criminal proceedings was adopted by the European Commission on 20th October 2010. This Directive states "Member States shall endeavour to establish a register or registers of independent translators and interpreters who are appropriately qualified. Once established, such register or registers shall, where appropriate, be made available to legal counsel and relevant authorities." (Article 5(2), Directive 211064EU on of the European Parliament and of the Council on the Right to Interpretation and Translation in Criminal Proceedings. The UK already has such register (NRPSI) which is currently being reconstituted as an independent regulatory body. Outsourcing and allowing the profession to be regulated by agencies is contrary to the interests of justice and not in the best interest of the profession or those who need interpreting and translation services. Outsourcing in other countries has resulted in a marked worsening in the quality of interpreting services. Freedom of Information requests in the UK regions that have already outsourced show that agencies do not operate in the interest of justice and employ unqualified interpreters to increase their profits. This generates large profits for agencies at the expense of tax payers and interpreters. As a result of this many professionals in the UK are being forced out of the profession and are now seeking alternative employment. This, in turn, will result in shortages of suitably qualified interpreters in the future. It takes several years to become a qualified and competent interpreter and every effort should be made to prevent current qualified interpreters from leaving the profession.
HollygoLula
Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 11:41 AM@41 tlongarms...you mention we live in a capitalist country....really?....if we did private sector compnies would be left open to all the highs and lows of market forces..yet when the market is good, banks take all the profits...when they are bad suddenly public money is used to bail out? If you truly beleive we live in a capitalist country then, as all self employed interpretors should be aware, they are open to these same market forces..unfortunately these forces are paying lower rates now. My comments are not out of jealousy, more frustration at the so called 'private sector' making or taking money from the public sector.
tlongarms
Thursday, February 23, 2012 at 09:03 AM@30 - I paint a dark picture because for most interpreters it is not how you see it. Most I know survive and a have a comfortable life, but they are far from minted, but what they have they earn. Am I an interpreter, no. Do I think they are overpaid, no. This country has too many people saying this person earns too much, this person earns too little. We live in a capitalist country, if you want a better life its in your hands to make it happen. Jealousy will get you nowhere.
HollygoLula
Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 11:38 AM@36 lonelygoatherd...it is not up to the 'juiciary' to set the policies or law in this country...it is up to the politicians as they are the ones elected by the people, something called democracy? It is because 'legal' people seem to set the agenda that we, the law abiding majority, are left with criminals being freed early and the very undemocratic human rights act.
PottyBoroPensioner
Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 11:29 AMMaybe they couldnt read the letter that was sent out by the court because it was in English, If the foreign criminals want to be heard they should pay for there own interpreter or accept the punishment, after all they are the ones that want to be heard
HollygoLula
Wednesday, February 22, 2012 at 09:02 AM@35 Postie Supporter......you mention 'vital services'...really interpretor services??? Vital services are care for the elderly, benefit support, youth services....definately NOT interpretation that only benefits a minority?
lonelygoatherd
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 11:54 PMOh, and I suggest to Outcast that he applies his Polish phrase to himself in this matter. And I suppose Trigger that the person that used an iron bar to kill the father from Bydgoszcz a couple of years or so ago was a pearl of our British culture.
lonelygoatherd
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 11:52 PMI am British born, bilingual in English and Polish and work in both the UK (mainly) and Poland. I have translated between an English speaker and a Pole at a relatively simple business level and found it hard work. Note that this was not simultaneous translation. Despite being able to think in either language with equal facility, I would not dream of attempting legal translation. I have seen (heard) a legally qualified translator in action – he was a Rolls Royce to my Trabant. If I needed legal assistance of this naturle, I would not want anyone less. Several posters have made the point very clearly regarding the skill that they are providing which is being bought cheaply and sold dearly. Judge Sheraton is in an excellent position to make waves in the correct direction which is the nasty way in which the ALS agreement was put together. He and the rest of the judiciary should be taking the MoJ by the throat and giving it a good shake.
Postie Supporter
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 11:19 PM@ Outcast, rogerandrew, Bambozler, Hissing Cyd, Holly etc. Your comments are completely wrong, unnecessary and show why this country has lost its values of decency, fairness, justice. There is a very well known saying "pay peanuts you get monkeys". This article is just another example in a very long list, of how out-sourcing vital services in both the public and private sectors does not work. Also this article is another example of a get rich quick scheme for some dubious unprincipled so called entrepreneur, but just shows how totally incompetent and out of touch this so called unelected government is.
Trigger
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 09:38 PMHvae some sympathy for the interpreters, the fact they are so in demand just shows what happens when Eastern Europe flushes its toilet on the UK, guess Eastern Europe must be crime free now.
polish interpreter
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 08:20 PMto rogerandrew and how many time have you been arrested? What we are talking here is: police, courts, interviews and trials not bloody form filling!
Prosinecki > God
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 08:04 PMOutcast and Bamboozler - do either of you have any idea what interpreters actually do? Interpreting is not something you can simply do 'on the side' as some kind of hobby for a couple of extra quid, just because you know a few words of a foreign language. It takes years of highly intensive training to become an interpreter, and it's one of the most stressful and mentally demanding jobs you can do. Professional court interpreters know the legal system and the language of law inside-out; they follow a strict code of conduct and are trained to cope with the mental and emotional stresses of the job. Remember that they are often the direct mouthpiece for murderers, or victims of rape, violent crime, domestic abuse... all of which are very challenging and distressing subjects. It's not a responsibility you can give to any random person. If you can understand all of that, you'll see why £20 an hour is such an insulting rate of pay. Take away tax, national insurance, travel costs and all the other unavoidable expenses of being self-employed, and you're left earning the same amount (or less) than an untrained, unskilled worker. On what planet is that a fair deal?
polish interpreter
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 08:01 PMI am afraid that most of the comments are missing the point- the explosion in costs of interpreting is not caused by interpreters being paid too much but the fact that the agencies like als spreading like bird flu, charging the client eg cash strapped hospitals up to £100 ph then paying interpreters £10-15 ph. What's the best way to reduce the costs? cut out the middleman. In case of the MoJ's contract with als (and others) that middleman was just introduced, the "savings" are difficult to see because the total spent on interpreting within CJS deduced from partial information received from the MoJ and various police forces does not add to the total sum of the contract £300 000 000. the fact that Capita bought als for 67 million is self-explanatory- there is a lot of money to be made- but not by us- people on call 247365 who are doing the actual work at 3 am. For those questioning use of interpreters in CJS saying "learn the language" I share that view but please bear in mind that most people who are living here for few years have enough English to serve them in everyday life. That is different from being interviewed under caution at a police station, making a statement as a victim of crime or a witness or being cross-examined by a Oxbridge-educated barrister- I've seen many native English speakers being flabbergasted by the language used- and they didn't look like Vicky Pollard. But let's save more- why give the british-born criminals lawyers? after all being being born, raised and educated in Britain they should be familiar with English Legal System. I am freelance so I can take the jobs I like, our rates did not change in over 10 years, most of us, interpreters, have at least one degree,(I have 2 plus LPC and my interpreting qualification) we are not afraid to work but not when a cleaning job pays more? i've been working throughout my life in UK so i am not afraid that I will not find work post-interpreting, what I am afraid is that on the rates of pay offered by als only amateurs, part-timers, pensioners will do the work for a while, till they realise that they are subsidising als-capita, and in the meantime guilty will go free, innocent will go to prison, victims will not get justice- what would you think if the only witness to an assault on a 10 year old English-speaking girl was your cleaner- a woman who arrived few months ago and unable to describe the incident properly because working 10-12 hrs per day and even attending language course she is unable to provide a statement or later , while cross-examined in court by a lawyer, paid to do his best to get his client off, discredited because she did not understand the questions, long difficult words used for that purpose- still feeling so right? as an interpreter I am also of the opinion that interpreting should not be provided in all situations, every single leaflet translated in 100 languages, what's the point of "welcome" on the poster in all the languages somebody could think of, but only when somebody's life, health or freedom is at stake- and then they should get the assistance of a properly qualified, experienced interpreter paid accordingly- it will save time, money and future embarrassment . all the money that are supposed to be saved with als contract (and will not) can be saved by other simple means but MoJ is hell-bent on demolishing the system that was working well so far, arising from a gross miscarriage of justice in Begum case. @longarm- I would appreciate further details re minster-owner of als- pls write to nrpsipolish@gmail.com
HollygoLula
Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 07:38 PM@4...you paint a very dark picture of the interpretor business, not at all like the interpretor i knew who had a 7 series BM? Who only worked a couple of days a week? Next you'll be telling us that solicitors have it hard?????? Me thinks you want to keep the salaries high in the legal system?
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